Arc A3010 networking...?

[Spirantho]

Hi people,

I just saw that other nice little thread about an A3000 and saw there are knowledgable people on this board who may be able help (are there any systems not known about in detail on this board??).

I have an Archimedes A3010. It's the one with the nice green function keys that Acorn wanted to compete with the A1200.
In their infinite wisdom, they gave it a podule slot. ONE podule slot.
Now, I need ethernet if I'm going to get this baby online (it's only a standard 1MB at the moment I think, but I can upgrade that). Yet, it seems that the only way to get it online is to load a TCP/IP stack - which you can't do because Acorn didn't put a hard disk interface in the A3010 (WHAT were they thinking?? Even the A600 had IDE internally!).
So you can't get online with a network card, because there's no TCP/IP stack. And you can't get online with a harddisk, because there's nowhere to stick your ethernet card.

I can't remember what kind of ethernet card it is (I'll have a look later if it helps) but I don't think it has any networking in ROM - but I could be wrong there. It's a third party one I think.

Does anyone have any ideas? What I really want is a minimum network to connect to my other machines, even if it's just a PC running RedSquirrel or something.

Any advice greatly appreciated!

[Phu]

Unfortunately there isn't an easy way around this. The A3010 was intended as a home machine and lined with the suitable peripherals of the time. Acorn felt that an IDE interface was just luxury for the home user (since games mostly ran from floppies) so they didn't waste expense on adding one.

This means that to use a hard drive, you need to use a "hard card" that fits into the podule slot. The problem is, you only get one slot and you need that for an ethernet card.

Since the TCP/IP stack is part of the latest !Boot install, you will need a HD for the stack.

If you're handy with a soldering iron, you can try building an external mini-podule slot by running some ribbon cable from the existing pins out to an external connector, but its not an easy job.

The only networking that is "built in" to Risc OS is the Econet support. Unfortunately this is no use to you as econet-to-ethernet bridges are hard as hell to obtain, and there is no Econet outlet on the A3010. Thusly, the socket to support an Econet module is not present.

So while you have Econet support in Risc OS 3.11, you don't have any means to connect hardware.

This is one of the complaints regarding Acorn's decisons on the A3010/A3020/A4000 range. The A3020 was an ideal compact machine, but without joystick ports. The A3010 had the ports, but nothing else useful

The A4000 is basically just an A3020 in a 3-box design.

-- Richard

[Derek Barnet]

I know little about ARc's. But I will offer some comments:

a) I did find a tar archive on Ben Harris's web site giving the source code for
econet under UNIX.

b) Lets say you sell the A3010 and then go and buy a ARC that will do the job.
What alternatives are there  - that will work?

c) In the BBC B/Master world there are suppliers of Memory Card based harddrives etc.
That use either the User port or 1MHz bus etc. Is there any modern innovations
that might help create a ARC with harddrive (CF/MMC Memory Card) and ethernet ?

d) You mentioned problems with joystick/mouse support. Would the solutions to b) c) offer Joystick/mouse ?

I repeat I actaually know nothing - but I think other viewers may be interested in your advice/opinion.

[Derek Barnet]

Some more thoughts

e) Does the A3010 support a 3.5" disc drive ? If so then this should have 720kb capacity.
So if it is possible - try creating a boot floppy that includes loading into memory the
ethernet stack. It may seam strange in 2011, but in late 1980's even the IBM Pc was sometimes sold and used with a boot disc, ethernet and no hard disc.

f) Connect econet card to the A3010, you now have a network card.  You could use another ARC as the interface between econet and ethernet. Or you could investigate
using the econet software written for UNIX. Recompile and link to run under your
host computer operating system. Linux may be an easier port. Then there's cabling !!!

Good Luck

[Phu]

Just to follow up on Derek's points:

a) No point in this, Risc OS already has Econet support built-in. Whats needed is Ethernet support.

b) This is probably the best option, but Archimedes machines (A305/A310/A410/A420/A540) are difficult to come by.

c) Unfortunately, the Arcs don't have the same port set. Nothing on the back of the A3010 is suitable so you'd have to use the podule slot, which brings us back to the same problem.

e) The Acorn Ethernet stack is well over even the 1.6Mb floppy format supported by Risc OS. The whole stack takes up around 5 Mb, so can't be loaded onto a floppy.

f) The Econet-under-UNIX support is unfortunately "driver only" - i.e. the kernel supports an Econet interface, but there is (to my knowledge) no Econet server support software for unix/linux. Another Arc running an Econet/Ethernet bridge can work, but it will only work for file sharing, i.e. it won't bring true ethernet and/or TCP/IP to the original machine. For that you'd still need a TCP/IP stack, which brings us back to the same problem.

Unfortunately, there is no easy solution. The A3010 just wasn't designed to be used in this way... its intended as a basic home machine to compete with the Amiga... not a full on networkable workstation.

-- Richard

[Spirantho]

Thanks for the replies.

This just makes me realise one thing... ALL of the main protagonists in the 16/32-bit wars made some really dumb mistakes.

Amiga: 68020 in 1992? AGA with no chunky modes despite the obvious trend towards that sort of thing. 880KB disk drives? All excusable though as there were good technological reasons. At least even the A600 had built-in IDE.
Atari Falcon: 68030 - a good move! Then they stick it on a 16-bit memory bus.... Great expansion, though, finally a true SCSI port and VGA output.
Acorn: Want games? Buy an A3010. Want business? Buy an A3020. Want to do serious stuff AND play games? Sorry.... How much would it have cost to stick an internal IDE port in?

Of course retrospect is always 20/20 vision, but anyone could see that some of these moves were a bit ... limiting.