QL Games

[Panther]

Some really good looking ones here, perhaps Phu could get a few onto disk !

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3pl0cGne_Mk&feature=related

[Prime]

I also seem to remember spending absolutely hours playing QL Cavern in the late 80s early 90s....

Cheers.

Phill.
 

[Phu]

Way ahead of you.

20 floppies labelled up and ready for image writing on Saturday morning

-- Richard

[Scarlettkitten]

Good games are :- BJ Returns, Jungle Eddie and a shooter I can't remember the name of as I haven't been into QLs for years. Oh **** Hoverzone was good too.

[rwap]

Can I just make it clear that the QL Games Collection 1 contains 10 games which are ALL commercial titles and subject to copyright.

I am dismayed to see Panther suggesting that they could be copied to disk and Phu making 20 copies of these programs 

Phu - please confirm that the disks have been destroyed - or else you will need to send me £200 to cover 20 copies of the collection.

The QL Games Collection 1 can only be purchased through me - see
http://www.sellmyretro.com/offer/details/Sinclair_QL_Games_Collection_1-2152

[Phu]

Hi Rich,

It is clear you've put 2 and 2 together here and come up with 527. Let me clear a few things up for you here.

1) Notice the title. RETRO COMPUTER MUSEUM. We're not a games outlet, we don't offer a supply service. We offer machines physically set up for people to play on. This obviously requires software.

2) 20 disks doesn't mean 20 copies going out to unnamed people. It means I purchased 20 floppy disks from eBay for use as QL floppy disks and labelled with what I intend to put on them. These are *ALL* specifically for use by RCM, and  have not left our premises.

3) From the "QL games collection", only one of those is actually imaged (Deathstrike) and my belief in your copyright claim is dubious at best. If you can provide documentation detailing your ownership of the copyrights to this game we will happily respect that copyright.

4) We did not make 20 copies of "QL games" collection. In fact, we made none of that specific disk. The disks we have are of *individual* games. At best, we owe you £10, if you can provide documentation of your holding of rights to "Deathstrike".

My apologies for being public with this, but if you want to throw accusations in our forum without first discussing it with admins, then the reply will be equally public. I would advise further discourse is conducted via private message.

-- Richard

[rwap]

I understand that yes, it's a computer museum, but you will find that purchasing one copy of any program does not provide the rights for anyone to make further copies of that program (whether for sale or otherwise).  Generally making a backup copy for your own use is perfectly acceptable, but not distributing it elsewhere (hence why buying one copy of Microsoft Office does not allow you to install it on 20 computers in an office - at least they have the ability to ensure that each copy has to be individually registered to prevent this)

I know that I may have come across a bit harsh, but there continues to be this great urban myth on the internet about abandonware - a term which simply does not exist in English Law (or any other jurisdiction so far as I am aware!).  

Under UK law, copyright remains in tact for the life in being of the author (or person to whom the rights have been assigned) + 60 years.

The games were originally published by Talent Software who have retained all rights to continue publishing the games - I have an agreement with Tom Dolezal who owns Talent Software (and did in the 1980s) to publish games as an agent for Talent - I can provide documentation of his approval for me to sell the titles on his behalf (yes, I still pay royalties to Talent).

Asking for £200 was said tongue in cheek - however, you will appreciate that this is a real issue and I would rather have been contacted for permission and details of what was planned rather than just having copies of a game handed about without any consideration as to the rights to do so!

[Phu]

Hi Rich,

As mentioned previously, we have not distributed anything, nor do we allow games to be taken away from RCM for any reason. They are for playing on site only.

I will bring Andy's attention to this as to how RCM would like to proceed concerning the one game in question ("Deathstrike").

As a side note, I would like to personally disagree with you on the concept of "Abandonware". While you are technically correct from a legal point of view, I don't think it's ever been asserted (not by respectable parties at least) that "abandonware" is "copyright free". Rather, abandonware covers software which is so old that the copyright owner has (or would have) little to no interest in pursuing copyright claims on it.

To wit, the majority of ZX Spectrum games publishers have waived their copyright to said games on the grounds that their is no commercial merit in the legal costs of enforcing it, even though legally they still have a right to do so.

Similarly, it can hardly be said that the Sinclair QL is a "booming games industry" - it was hardly that when the machine was current. Thus (while respecting your copyrights in this matter) your, shall we say, firm hand in a computer museum's use of QL games (again, *NOT* distributing) seems a little over the top if you don't mind me saying.

-- Richard

[rwap]

Tee hee - maybe it's my legal (or ZX81) background - as I see things in black and white !

At least you see the point about abandonware - basically anyone that distributes software trying to rely on 'abandonware' is taking the risk that copyright owners will not persue them. 

This is not necessarily the case with regards QL software, as many of the copyright holders expressly will not give their permission to distribution in any form - mainly because they are owned by large corporations who do not know the status any more. 

Case in point is Psion, Sinclair, Amstrad, and Sage accounts - the situation with Sinclair and Amstrad is extremely complex, as neither can actually agree what happened to the rights to the QL catalogue - it seems as though it was thrown in with everything when Amstrad acquired the rights to the Spectrum, but as to whether it was listed in the agreement, no-one seems to be able to answer!  Certainly a bigger issue was that Sinclair sold some rights to the US distributor (including the rights to the QDOS ROM).

I would love more QL software to be readily available for people to use and get a real feel of the machine's capabilities, but I certainly am not willing to take the risk and need to defend the rights of those that receive royalties on sales.

Just a minor point - "distribution" of software/books/records etc is not limited to passing it on to a third party - making a copy is in itself enough to breach copyright - hence why libraries and companies have to pay fees to the copyright licensing agency to enable them to photocopy pages from books for use in their own organisation.

[AndyRCM]

Righty . . .

I will personally destroy the said disk 'deathstrike' on Sunday when I am at the Retro Computer Museum.

I can see your point Rich and totally understand where you are coming from and love the fact that you support the old systems (fair play to you - I know it can't be easy) . . . however equally so if the companies that created the software no longer exist then I cannot see any reason in making a new disk to use.

As Richard (Phu) has already stated RCM or any of its admins/moderators would not 'pass around' pirated software to anybody as it is totally against ALL of our policies that have been in force since I started this website almost four years ago.

Andy

[rwap]

Thanks Andy - unless you want to simply purchase a copy 

Actually most of the companies do still exist in one form or another - it is just that they do not tend to be able to track down the paperwork or knowledge to clarify who owns the copyright!

Looking at it from another perspective, there are plenty of books out there on the shelves, but just because you cannot easily track down the author, does not mean that it is free for anyone to make copies of the book!  - that is the whole point that copyright lasts for life in being + 60 years, so even if the author passed away in 1980 and you can find their death certificate - it is another 28 years before anyone can make copies of their work without permission from the author's estate !!

[AndyRCM]

I would love to purchase a copy Rich - unfortunately as you already (probably) know we are a charity and at the present time we are focusing more on paying our rent for our premises rather than purchasing items. We get no external funding and until we do that is how we will have to stay - paying our rent/electricity is the most important thing to do as without that we wouldn't be able to open or even function.

However, if we do get funding, that should change and we will purchase more items for the RCM.

Andy

[AndyRCM]

Currently in discussions with Rich . . . please bear with us on this . . .

A

[Panther]

I would love more QL software to be readily available for people to use and get a real feel of the machine's capabilities, but I certainly am not willing to take the risk and need to defend the rights of those that receive royalties on sales.

Too true, it's a very capable machine (let down slightly by the choice of processor), however I don't think it was really pushed enoughand there wasn't enough software to show it's true capabilities, the software I have for mine is limited to the microdrives that came with it (Quill, Easel etc.), as other software just seem too expensive to justify the cost given the amount of use they'd get.

Case in point with the software copyright issue is RARE and the old Speccy Ultimate games that they still refuse to release into the public domain even though most other software houses are free to do so, hence why the vast majority of the speccy back catalogue is freely downloadable.

Just out of interest, was much software released on 3.5" disk for the QL ? 

I am sure Andy and Rich can come to some agreement on this issue. 

[rwap]

Well, we are pleased to say that a deal has been agreed with Andy - I will leave it up to Andy to announce what has been agreed